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	<title>Comments on: Malcolm Turnbull on gay marriage: so near and yet so far</title>
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	<link>http://majorkarnage.net/2012/07/09/malcolm-turnbull-on-gay-marriage-so-near-and-yet-so-far/</link>
	<description>The most interesting thing you&#039;ve read today or your money back!</description>
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		<title>By: Gay marriage musing &#171; Major Karnage</title>
		<link>http://majorkarnage.net/2012/07/09/malcolm-turnbull-on-gay-marriage-so-near-and-yet-so-far/#comment-2634</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gay marriage musing &#171; Major Karnage]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Jul 2012 03:12:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://majorkarnage.net/?p=1688#comment-2634</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] response to the debate that I have been having with commenter &#8220;Greg&#8221;, beginning here and then moving here, I thought that I would do a quick thought exercise to explain why I do not [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] response to the debate that I have been having with commenter &#8220;Greg&#8221;, beginning here and then moving here, I thought that I would do a quick thought exercise to explain why I do not [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://majorkarnage.net/2012/07/09/malcolm-turnbull-on-gay-marriage-so-near-and-yet-so-far/#comment-2619</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 10:15:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://majorkarnage.net/?p=1688#comment-2619</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for the link,
Could you please respond to the second part of my comment too.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link,<br />
Could you please respond to the second part of my comment too.</p>
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		<title>By: MK</title>
		<link>http://majorkarnage.net/2012/07/09/malcolm-turnbull-on-gay-marriage-so-near-and-yet-so-far/#comment-2618</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 09:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://majorkarnage.net/?p=1688#comment-2618</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ok, I thought I had made myself clear, but obviously not.

Please see this post and then come back if you still have any questions: http://majorkarnage.net/2012/04/16/why-state-marriage-is-worse-for-marriage-than-gay-marriage/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, I thought I had made myself clear, but obviously not.</p>
<p>Please see this post and then come back if you still have any questions: <a href="http://majorkarnage.net/2012/04/16/why-state-marriage-is-worse-for-marriage-than-gay-marriage/" rel="nofollow">http://majorkarnage.net/2012/04/16/why-state-marriage-is-worse-for-marriage-than-gay-marriage/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://majorkarnage.net/2012/07/09/malcolm-turnbull-on-gay-marriage-so-near-and-yet-so-far/#comment-2617</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 07:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://majorkarnage.net/?p=1688#comment-2617</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Firstly, I don&#039;t know how else to interpret this quote &quot;I see no logical reason why the piece of paper proclaiming you to be “lawfully wedded” would make one iota of difference to wellbeing”

Secondly, what we&#039;re talking about is the RIGHT to marry under Australian law. The fact that your Jewish friends decided not to exercise that right because they have a different conception of &#039;marriage&#039; is great, but it&#039;s irrelevant. 

Same-sex couples aren&#039;t afforded this same opportunity to decide whether or not to get married, and have that marriage recognised by the State. (I don&#039;t believe they&#039;d be able to have their marriage recognised by Jewish law either). 

State marriage is the only type of marriage that is relevant and recognised by all Australians. And thus to deny a same-sex couple the right to a state marriage simply because it is a homosexual relationship is to treat their relationship as being of lesser value or less importance that a heterosexual relationship, that is,  &#039;second-class&#039;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Firstly, I don&#8217;t know how else to interpret this quote &#8220;I see no logical reason why the piece of paper proclaiming you to be “lawfully wedded” would make one iota of difference to wellbeing”</p>
<p>Secondly, what we&#8217;re talking about is the RIGHT to marry under Australian law. The fact that your Jewish friends decided not to exercise that right because they have a different conception of &#8216;marriage&#8217; is great, but it&#8217;s irrelevant. </p>
<p>Same-sex couples aren&#8217;t afforded this same opportunity to decide whether or not to get married, and have that marriage recognised by the State. (I don&#8217;t believe they&#8217;d be able to have their marriage recognised by Jewish law either). </p>
<p>State marriage is the only type of marriage that is relevant and recognised by all Australians. And thus to deny a same-sex couple the right to a state marriage simply because it is a homosexual relationship is to treat their relationship as being of lesser value or less importance that a heterosexual relationship, that is,  &#8216;second-class&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: MK</title>
		<link>http://majorkarnage.net/2012/07/09/malcolm-turnbull-on-gay-marriage-so-near-and-yet-so-far/#comment-2615</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 05:46:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://majorkarnage.net/?p=1688#comment-2615</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m not sure you quite understood what I was getting at. That sentence had nothing to do with gay marriage.

That aside, I don&#039;t agree with your characterisation of marriage anyway, it assumes that there is a &quot;first class&quot; that attaches to heterosexual couples through state marriage and that to be outside of that institution is somehow of a lower class.

I know a heterosexual couple who are happily married under Judaism, but never had their marriage registered by the state because they believe that God, and not the government, is the authority that can recognise marriage. I come from a very different place, but I agree completely with that perspective. I do not think that they are in any way in a &quot;second class&quot; of relationship when compared with the &quot;first class&quot; of state sanctioned marriage.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure you quite understood what I was getting at. That sentence had nothing to do with gay marriage.</p>
<p>That aside, I don&#8217;t agree with your characterisation of marriage anyway, it assumes that there is a &#8220;first class&#8221; that attaches to heterosexual couples through state marriage and that to be outside of that institution is somehow of a lower class.</p>
<p>I know a heterosexual couple who are happily married under Judaism, but never had their marriage registered by the state because they believe that God, and not the government, is the authority that can recognise marriage. I come from a very different place, but I agree completely with that perspective. I do not think that they are in any way in a &#8220;second class&#8221; of relationship when compared with the &#8220;first class&#8221; of state sanctioned marriage.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://majorkarnage.net/2012/07/09/malcolm-turnbull-on-gay-marriage-so-near-and-yet-so-far/#comment-2614</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Greg]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jul 2012 05:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://majorkarnage.net/?p=1688#comment-2614</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;I see no logical reason why the piece of paper proclaiming you to be “lawfully wedded” would make one iota of difference to wellbeing&quot; - really???????

Philosophical arguments aside, the fact is, marriage is State-regulated. Surely there are going to mental health implications for members of the community who are considered second-class by the current legislation, simply because they are in a same-sex relationship.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I see no logical reason why the piece of paper proclaiming you to be “lawfully wedded” would make one iota of difference to wellbeing&#8221; &#8211; really???????</p>
<p>Philosophical arguments aside, the fact is, marriage is State-regulated. Surely there are going to mental health implications for members of the community who are considered second-class by the current legislation, simply because they are in a same-sex relationship.</p>
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